Starting on the side stand?

[Motocod]

What's the collective wisdom? Is starting on the sidestand (from cold) a no-no? Not done it so far, as it seems like the wrong thing to do. However, would be handy to start on the sidestand while I put gloves and lid on, and give the engine a little while long to run before I ride off.

thanks,

Nik

[Dai wiskers]

Not something that i do
Just get dressed climb on get it up off the stand then press button give it a couple of seconds to get the oil round then go
No need to warm up anything with fuel injection
Hope this helps Dai

[metropolis2k]

This is a bit of a debatable point between me and er-minio. I read from the beginning not to do it so never did on the GS. All the while he was starting his S on the side-stand and repeatedly telling me his 1150R did 100,000km without any issues after being started like that. As a result I'm not precious about it anymore and don't mind doing it, but often will only start it up after I've sat on it.

[Motocod]

For me, the two issues are this:

Is there an oil pick-up in the sump that is still within the oil when the bike is on the sidestand (I suspect yes, or you'd be screwed every time you went round a left-hander!).

Are there any issues with oil collecting within the left hand cylinder (or cylinder head) when the bike is on the sidestand? Possibly...

I suppose the ultimate solution for me would be to fit a centrestand!

Nik

[HerrFlick]

Not something that i do
Just get dressed climb on get it up off the stand then press button give it a couple of seconds to get the oil round then go
No need to warm up anything with fuel injection
Hope this helps Dai

With you on that Dai.

The old practice of 'warming up' means poison for your engine.

The corrosive condensation produced during the warm-up phase will find its way into the oil, as well as acting corrosively on the piston/rings during its short contact time.

Modern oils (from easily 20 years ago) contain anti-scuff additives that protect sliding parts for the second or so until oil pressure rises.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing, once oil pressure is up, is to move off under very light load: this causes the great bulk of the condensate to be blown out the tailpipe.


DON'T give the throttle a blip on startup, OR exceed 2000-3000 rpm until oil temp rises.

WHY: all to do with piston speed and the ability of the oil film to shear (smear) quickly enough i.e not 'tear' to prevent piston-to-bore contact.

Whilst oil is cold its kinematic viscosity is high, meaning that it can't be smeared quickly without the smear film 'tearing', allowing some metal-to-metal contact.

As the temp rises and the oil 'thins', it can be smeared far more easily, therefore providing a lubricating film

Think about spreading cold butter on bread without tearing the bread. Similar mechanism.

Shorter stroke engines can be revved a little higher.


The bore/stroke of our engines are similar to those of many car engines, including my 928 Porsche.

It was through being paranoid about lubrication of the 928 that I discovered much info on lubrication... ahem koff koff... engine lubrication ... you bunch of perverts , that I can now apply to my S.


What has surprised me during my return to 'modern' riding is the almost complete disconnect between the car and bike worlds as far as sharing/understanding 'stuff' like lubrication info.

Sad to say it's in the main that riders are still talking Old Mechanics Oil Tales from 30 years ago, and putting up with 'avoidable' component wear and failure as the bike rider's lot.


I'd better stop or I'll be here all night.

But two points:

- make sure your oil contains >> 1000pm of ZDDP.

- make sure the cold-start viscosity (the W number) is matched to the worst operating temps:

eg some ppl get away with thinner summer oils only 'cos their car/bike lives in a warmish garage.

Then they have to park on the street for a while and they wonder why the engine rattles a bit before the oil pressure comes up. Nom nom nom ... burrrrp ...

- change the oil filter every 'second' oil change.

Works on the same principle that K&N would have you believe their air filters are better:

- as the filter collects contaminants it enhances its ability to collect finer contaminants.

Yep. OK up to a point, with the question being "what is getting past the filter until it gets suitably 'clogged'?", and what is "IT" doing to your engine until then?

But there are dynamic differences separating each situation:

- gravel coming through the air filter has maximum, raw, wear impact on the rings, piston and bore.

- startup 'wear' particle effects within the circulating oil are, to some degree, buffered by the lubrication film, and are intermittent compared to say the contaminants entering the engine via the air filter when riding day-after-day in dry dusty conditions.

- in actual fact it is the oil filter that finally traps the debris produced by the K&N gravel grinding between the bore and rings and then washed down into the crankcase.

Having said all that there are US public sector vehicle fleet maintenance studies to support the long term benefits of the 'every second oil / filter change'.

Follow that with Suzuki's 'every second' change regime for the Hyabusa and other large capacity models, achieving an engine life exceeding 250,000 km.

Note also that only paper air intake filters are used during these studies.

OK.

Gone now.

Bye.


.

[tanneman]

Start the bike, check lights, horn, indicators, brake lights, put the gloves on, get on and ride off. Usually for about 5 min or less in 30 mph traffic as I make my way to the countryside. The initial checks and fitting the gloves gives the bike time to circulate the oil while the throttle gets light use in traffic so the engine has an easy time warming up. Side stand or centre stand doesn't matter for me. When the GSA is loaded then it is usually on the centre stand but that is more to do with the convenience than worrying about the left pot.

[er-minio]

repeatedly telling me his 1150R did 100,000km without any issues after being started like that.

Not "telling you". I did it. And for more than 100.000km
You sometimes get the puff of oil in the left cyl from the exhaust.

For the rest, no warming up. Like tanneman says. 2/3 mins checking the few last things and the you gently go your way.

I never had any issues with the bike being on the sidestand (this one only has the side-stand).

On the italian forum we had endless discussions over the years on a similar thing: never leave the bike on the side stand (especially when the engine is still really hot) overnight, or oil will accumulate in the left cyl.

Yes it does (see the faint smoke coming out in the morning)... still some beemers come with just a sidestand, so it shouldn't be that bad.

[SAS Tom]

I recently took the crankcase breather pipe and put a bottle on the end of it so the oil couldcollect in there instead of the airbox. The engine then started to send a big cloud out the exhaust on start up. Not every time but regularly. Not sure whether effectively plugging the ccb increased the crankcase pressure which pushed oil past the piston rings or it was collecting so much oil in the bottle that it was running back down the pipe once the engine stopped.

This weekend took the bottle off and attached a tube long enough so it could let any oil/condensation to the atmosphere. So far so good and no clouds of smoke since. Oil consumption has gone down massively too.

[Motocod]

Thanks for all the brilliant feedback Gents, really appreciated. Got to love internet forums! I don't know what I'd do without them?!

This backs up what I've found - slight puff on start-up if on the sidestand. At least I know why now.

Loving this bike more, the more I ride it

Nik

[Dai wiskers]

Another strange thing that i have noticed is that if you put it on the centre stand immediately after stopping it will leak oil from the timing case put it on the side stand for 10 minutes then put it on the centre stand it will leak far less
Due to dodgy welding on my crankcase mine marks it's territory everywhere it goes but does so far less if i leave it on the side stand for a few minutes first