The suspension's killing me

oyster · Post by **oyster** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:05 pm

As mentioned in the group suspension buy, I tracked down Tim Rose of TR Engineering. He is a metalurgist who helped design and is now the UK sales point of E=MC 'Endurance' shocks. Been doing this for eight successful years. My friend put a pair on his boxer and loved them.
TR described the units as a rival to anything on the marketplace without boasting outrageously. I challenged him on every angle I could think of and I am impressed. He backs it up with a 'for life' helpline. I only want the best for the bike.
The units are finished in a corrosion resistant plating on the steel, heavy annodise on the alloy, blue powdered spring. Damper rod is a new heavy chrome, the nitride finish is prone to chipping so they have gone to this.
The front unit is slightly slimmer and the rear slightly larger. No remote damper adjuster units, all in one.
TR will want to know the load of usual riding style, solo, two up, extra baggage, track etc. to pick the correct spring and will help with advise on how to tune the suspension for best results.
Now the good bit, Ohlins pair, £1025 plus delivery.

E=MC Endurance, £500 pair, delivered.

Tell TR that you are from the Boxertrix site, read my info and want to talk/buy on 01933 229670 or 07970 684816, workshop hours till 20.00hrs.
Oh, he did say that a certain well known Ducati rider took his bike out with one of these on it replacing his £8k? Ohlins unit a few years back, and did not notice the difference.
TR does shocks for other bikes and will sell separately for R1100S, but the price will be adjusted.
Ohlins rebuild cost, rec. at 50k miles, £100. E=MC rebuild, including a new damper rod, £45.
I will be going for these.

stempy · Post by **stempy** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:05 pm

All I can say is you get what you pay for. Hope you're not disappointed.

herrman · Post by **herrman** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:55 pm

Guys,
I'm sure Stempy is right when he says 'you get what you pay for' BUT IMHO many people are paying for features that they dont really need!! Do you really need hydraulic preload adjustment? (£150 extra) Only if your riding 1 up one day and 2 up the next and then adding luggage the day after. Compression damping adjustment? I'm sure many of us could make the handling worse if we have too many adjustments to play with. I have found major improvment on both my S's by simply replacing the shocks with a better quality (Technoflex/Wilbers) basic shock which has been built for my weight and riding style. Just my 2p worth which I'm sure not everyone will agree with!!
Regards Peter.

Light the Blue Touch Paper and Stand Well Back!!

stempy · Post by **stempy** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:26 pm

My main issue was with quality of finish, although quality of damping can also vary. Some of the more obscure brands can leave a bit to be desired.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:59 pm

I'd go with Peter on this - my last S I fitted with a rear Ohlins before buying a front Technoflex a month or so later. You know what made the biggest difference to the bike's feel and handling?? The front one - despite all my 'well surely the rear suspension does the most work??' I was more than a bit surprised.

Then I remember I conversation I had with Ron Williams at Maxton after he re-valved the forks on my old 900 Daytona a few years ago. The front suspension, and its quality, has a greater effect on a bike's handling than the rear as it has to cope with so many different forces: More weight transfer than the rear, plus steering and braking - proper 3 dimensional stuff whereas the rear only controls 2-dimensions. He stated any loss of control at the front end is passed down through the bike's chassis, which makes perfect sense to me - If anyone knows more about suspension than him, especially on this site, I'd like to meet him/her. Anyway...I digress...

If you can get a pair of really good quality shocks (which are tailor-made) for half the price of Ohlins I'd go for them every time.

Oh...and if you reckon Ohlins are better finished, the pair on my 1100R had done approx 5000 miles and are in a worse state than the front Technoflex on my old S, which had a similar mileage.

Of course, yer pays yer money, but I couldn't justify spending well over a K for a pair of shocks.

Don't get me wrong - Ohlins are a superb product I'd never say anything else (got a pair of 11R shocks sat in the garage at the moment - they are objects of true beauty) but for 99% of riders 99% of the time, an equal improvement in handling can be had for a lot less dosh.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 9:18 pm

Just had a trowel round Google - found this which may be of use.

I'd certainly be interested in a shock for the Teetee if we could do a deal.

oyster · Post by **oyster** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 6:10 am

Well Grommit has found my friend's info, it was Terry that put me onto the E=MC. (see above). And I certainly agree with the comments about the front shock, having recently switched from a fifty year old suspension system on a twenty year old bike to the paralever. I often had to wrestle with the bike in fast bumpy corners to keep it on line, not now though.
I challenged TR Eng. about his shocks, how can they be so cheap, finish, performance etc.
I am not his agent, but he did say there are no wholesalers/middlemen/advertisers/sponsors involved. Quality of finish was 'at least as good', he was not going to run down any rival, but he may have wanted to say 'better' than the others. Adjustment; spring is rated to type of use and load to customer spec, and the ride height, damping, rebound are all there.
The chap is quite genuine, anyone thinking of buying shocks for any bike, may want to talk to TR first.

winger · Post by **winger** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:51 am

I'd say Peter's spot on, your average road bike rider wouldn't know a shock spring from a bed spring!

It just grates a little when i'm being told that some cheapo stuff is just a good,the fact that people don't need anything better or can't tell the difference!!! is a completely separate issue.

Chris

Mick Mac · Post by **Mick Mac** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:56 am

As an average road rider, £500 sounds much better to me than £1000, if the shocks are worth it. Too many settings would get me overly confused.

I was particularly interested to read that the front unit was by far the more important unit. I do find the front to be a bit juddery so might just look at replacing this first and the rear one when funds allow.

Is there any chance that Mr.Rose would be open to a group discount?

Mick

p.s. Gromit, is your avatar a take off of Pam and Tommy's video in their car?

oyster · Post by **oyster** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:53 pm

I asked TR about group purchase and the discounts. £500 the pair delivered is the discount to Boxertrix 'members', that is why I said that if anybody was interested, to mention to him this is where you found out about it.
TR did go on to advise that he could provide single shocks, including those for other bikes, but at the usual rate, which I suspect will still be very reasonable.
Talk to the man, then tell everyone here the failings of his products. I was impressed by him.

winger · Post by **winger** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:59 pm

It really is very simple,you have a spring which have different rateings,a preload ajuster for altering the pressure on the spring for setting up the 'SAG',the compression ajuster affects how quickly the shock compress's and the rebound ajuster alters how quickly the shock springs back,and a remote reservoir so the shock doesn't get all hot and bothered and get it's nickers in a twist,if you've been rideing hard for an hour or so!!

As Peter pointed out if you don't alternate much between one up and two up,then you really don't need a remote preload,i'd always have one cuz i'm bone idle,i'd rather pay the 150 quid than fanny about with a C spanner no matter how rare!!!.

Chris

jts · Post by **jts** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:57 pm

hi
where are they based as the phone number looks like a northants code if so i could pop over and have a chat and a butchers at the product

theseadog · Post by **theseadog** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 11:32 am

If I could have got the Showa rebuilt I would have, but they're not servicable units. Wasn't about to pay 400 + quid for another non-servicable unit, so it was an after market job.

Bought Ohlins before on other bikes and never had any probs with quality or durability, Would have bought a Hagton unit if I'd heard better reports, but for 400 quid I wasn't taking a chance. It's a lot of money and I want to know what I'm getting.

As for the remote pre-load, I do use it as I vary frequently between solo, pillion and loaded, and also like Chris I'm A) Allergic to skint knuckles and B) A lazy beggar.

A new Showa would undoubtabley have vastly improved the handling, but the aftermarket got the vote because it was Serviceable. The fact it has a great range of adjustment and (in my previous experience anyway ) is great qaulity certainly help. If you understand the forces at play then you can use the adjustments available to improve the handling of your bike be it for comfort two up or hard riding.

Toodle Pip