Well every new chap has to ask it....oil?

Basil the Labrador · Post by **Basil the Labrador** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:32 pm

Hi All

Indulge the new guy...

From reading a number of strings on this thorny topic I gather that BMWR1100S are best fed;

1. A reasonably heavy mineral oil 20/50 ish or the first 12K miles or so.

2. Then something lighter and perhaps semi-synthetic for the next few miles and longer.

When I bought the bike from Pidcocks three months ago they told me it was on 10/40 (has about 14500 miles on her) and doesn't seem to be using more oil than normal (from what I read).

So I was thinking of swapping onto a sump full off reasonable quality 20/50 for our summer (hottish) trip to southern France and seeing how that went.

Does this sound about right?

Thanks

Simon

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Wed May 23, 2007 8:14 pm

1. Correct.

2. Incorrect - 20W50 is what you need most of the time, possibly something slightly lighter if you ride through the winter. Check the oil grade guide in the owner's manual. Whether you change from mineral to synthetic or semi-synthetic is up to you - some people do, some don't.

Most dealers will put 10W40 in at service because of the deal that BMW has with Castrol - doesn't mean it's right, though!

decisivedave · Post by **decisivedave** » Wed May 23, 2007 10:25 pm

I heard that the 20/50 helps protect the valves by cushioning them better than other oils too

madman · Post by **madman** » Thu May 24, 2007 7:37 am

The only way that the engine oil would cushion the valves is if it were to go through the engine with the petrol and not be burnt!

madman · Post by **madman** » Thu May 24, 2007 12:57 pm

As Dave has sent me a PM to say that my post is not true, and that he meant the cushioning effect between the valve stem and rocker, I withdraw the above post.
Never heard of the end of the valve stem wearing so much that the engine is knackered though!

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Thu May 24, 2007 2:25 pm

madman wrote:As Dave has sent me a PM to say that my post is not true, and that he meant the cushioning effect between the valve stem and rocker, I withdraw the above post.
Never heard of the end of the valve stem wearing so much that the engine is knackered though!

I wouldn't have withdrawn that post..... I don't believe that the viscosity of the oil has any effect on valve clearances over a period of time, which is effectively what he's arguing.

Basil the Labrador · Post by **Basil the Labrador** » Thu May 24, 2007 6:25 pm

Thanks!

I'll get some Halfords finest Classis Oil 20/50 and fill her up with it then...

Cheers

Simon

BlueBoxer · Post by **BlueBoxer** » Fri May 25, 2007 6:50 am

But Castrol Classic is a low detergent formula, and it's only rated to SE/CC.

There's Castrol GP 20w/50 , which is made for BMW shaft driven modern engines.

Or Morris Ringfree 20w/50 SJ rated, with a high detergent formula.

Steve

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 25, 2007 7:52 am

Basil the Labrador wrote:I'll get some Halfords finest Classis Oil 20/50 and fill her up with it then...

You need a decent modern 20W50 with a minimum rating as shown in the manual - I can't remember offhand but as Steve says, a classic oil WON'T be up to the job.

I'm using this from Valvoline - the engine idles smoothly and quietly and consumption is so far non-existent in a mix of commuting into London and a 100 miles of hard, fast riding (that's early last Sunday morning for you - best ride of the year so far). VR1 is nothing particularly special - just a decent mineral 20W50 that I could get hold of at the time.

BlueBoxer · Post by **BlueBoxer** » Fri May 25, 2007 8:35 am

One issue, is where to buy a modern 20w50 oil with a decent specification. It's not usually stocked in Halfords / local bike shop.

I use the local Chandler. Canal boats must use 20w50, as there is a selection.

I've just bought 5L of Morris Ring Free XHD 20w/50 in a proper metal tin

£14.25

Steve

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:39 am

BlueBoxer wrote:Canal boats must use 20w50, as there is a selection.

I've just bought 5L of Morris Ring Free XHD 20w/50 in a proper metal tin £14.25

But canal boats are diesel-powered, and Morris Ring Free XHD is primarily a diesel oil. I hope you're joking, and that you're not seriously considering putting this in your bike

I know that Morris claim it's suitable for "use in petrol engines fitted in light commercial vehicles and passenger cars" but so are most diesel oils.....in theory. Go and buy some proper oil designed for use in a high-revving petrol engine with a wide operating temperature range!

BlueBoxer · Post by **BlueBoxer** » Fri May 25, 2007 11:12 am

Yep, I'm serious. Ran my Bandit 1200 from new to 110k on Diesel oil or Petrol oil anything SG or above. - Lidl / Woolies/ Halfords, whatever is the cheapest at the time. Don't know the detail of what was going on in the engine, as it never ever came apart, but the cams looked looked fine at the last valve clearance check, so the lubrication was getting there and working.

What's wrong with Diesel oil?

sproggy · Post by **sproggy** » Fri May 25, 2007 11:26 am

BlueBoxer wrote:Yep, I'm serious. Ran my Bandit 1200 from new to 110k on Diesel oil or Petrol oil anything SG or above. - Lidl / Woolies/ Halfords, whatever is the cheapest at the time. Don't know the detail of what was going on in the engine, as it never ever came apart, but the cams looked looked fine at the last valve clearance check, so the lubrication was getting there and working.

I don't doubt that the engine was fine. I'd hate to see the state of the gearbox, though! Bikes with oil shared between engine and gearbox (and usually also with a wet clutch) need bike-specific oil that's designed to work in gearboxes as well as engines. It's something to do with the shear stresses between gear teeth being far higher than a normal engine oil can cope with - it'll break down and there'll be no oil layer between gear teeth leading to accelerated wear. An oil designed for a bike engine will have additives to cope with the conditions in the gearbox.

Most BMWs don't need bike-specific oil, of course, because the gearbox is separate from the engine.

BlueBoxer wrote:What's wrong with Diesel oil?

You might just as well ask what's wrong with sunflower oil! Or two-stroke oil. It's designed to do something different. Diesel engines are slow-revving and generally run at lower temperatures than petrol engines, tending to create more 'dirt' (particulates as a by-product of combustion - most goes out of the exhaust but some makes it in to the oil) in the process and diesel oils I believe generally contain far more detergent than you need/want in a petrol engine. There are probably other differences but I'm not an expert.

Look at it this way - if the same oil was truly suitable for petrol and diesel engines why would the oil manufacturers go to the bother of developing, packaging and marketing something different for the differently-fuelled engines? You can bet it's not for fun. I wouldn't consider putting petrol oil in my diesel car any more than I'd consider putting diesel oil in my bike.

When it comes down to it it's your bike and your engine, but if I was looking to buy a bike and discovered that the previous owner had used diesel oil in it you wouldn't see me for dust.

BlueBoxer · Post by **BlueBoxer** » Fri May 25, 2007 12:21 pm

Well. my view is that the manufacturer has to pay someone to validate the
codes they print on the side of the can. They're the real measure of what the oil can do. The rest is marketing, packaging the stuff, so someone will pay a higher price for the name on the side, or some view that it's "better" than cheaper oil made to the same standards.

So I read the codes, and buy it if the price is right for the codes on the tin.

Motorcycle oil, the same, it's packaging. There's an argument that the shearing forces in the gearbox, chop the oil up, and it loses viscosity quicker than 'special' motorcycle oil. This may be the case, so buy cheap, and change more often. It'll work out better for your engine, and cost less.

So my advice would be, read the codes on the tin before you buy. As an example, Castrol Classic, may sound a good choice, but it's made to a specification too low for the BMW engine, and would be a poor choice.

Off on a ride now, back Monday!

Steve

Basil the Labrador · Post by **Basil the Labrador** » Fri May 25, 2007 1:44 pm

Decent modern 20/50 oil hmmm easier said than done!

Having spent about 2 hours driving around the motor factors of South Staffs in attempt to find anything other than really cheapo 20/50 or Halfords Classic..I am at a loss.

Any tips on how to get hold of good quality 20/50 Mineral oil? Nobody around my area that I have found seems to stock it...lots of 15/40 n 10/40 but 20/50 uh uh...

Yes I guess I could get it posted from some where more specialist but the postage I would think to be prohibitively expensive for 5Kg of oil??

Thoughts?

Simon