Ball Joint Change - HELP!

[sproggy]

I've taken the forks out of the bike to re-finish the fork bottoms and fork bridge - they're a mess. Trouble is, there's wear in the fork bridge/wishbone balljoint (after 11k miles ). I don't have a big enough vice, the special BMW tool, or a torque wrench that'll go up to 270Nm so I took it to SBW in Hertford to change the joint.........and they don't have the tools either! They did very kindly offer to order me a complete new fork bridge (including balljoint) for £210, though.......

Can anyone recommend a place or person who can remove the old balljoint from the bridge and fit a new one? Perferably N London or Hertfordshire but I guess I can send it anywhere.

Thanks.

[snavetrauts]

I thought all BMW Approved dealers had to have all BMW tools as a part of the agreement
stuart

[sproggy]

That's the assumption that I rather rashly made too. Apparently the special tool is "too expensive" (their words) to make it worthwhile buying.

Or, to put it another way, why charge to fit a £60 balljoint when you can charge £210 for a complete assembly? Another reason to add to the list of many why I don't take my bike to the dealer for work. Now it seems I can't even ask them to work on sub-assemblies!

[gus]

Hi
You sure the ball joint is worn or was was it not tight.I would say it was the latter,as i had to retighten mine every 10,000 miles or so.Bumping up and down kerbs/speed humps dont help matters.
gus

[winger]

Firstlt are we talking bottom fork yoke and ball joint?? is that what you mean by bridge??

If so you'll have to find a big vice,buy one they ain't exspensive,turn the yoke upside down place in vice gripping the hexagon part of the ball joint,get an iron bar or similar place diagonal and put some prssure on,haveing tried all sort of things with big sockets,ajustables,took it into work bet it took all of ten seconds to get off,they did both mine and mr Sheens.

[bigblackfalco]

no special tools needed...just a big f\off spannah!
I very much doubt it has failed after 11K miles, like Gus says prob just needs tightening.
Mine lasted over 100K miles in courier mode.
Bailey.

[sproggy]

You sure the ball joint is worn or was was it not tight.I would say it was the latter,as i had to retighten mine every 10,000 miles or so.

But you're talking about the small nut on top (that attaches the balljoint to the wishbone) being loose. I'm talking about play in the joint itself.

Firstlt are we talking bottom fork yoke and ball joint?? is that what you mean by bridge??

Yes.

If so you'll have to find a big vice,buy one they ain't exspensive,turn the yoke upside down place in vice gripping the hexagon part of the ball joint,get an iron bar or similar place diagonal and put some prssure on,haveing tried all sort of things with big sockets,ajustables,took it into work bet it took all of ten seconds to get off,they did both mine and mr Sheens.

I'm guessing that getting the old one undone is the least challenging part - how about tightening up the new one? 270NM is very hard to achieve by guesswork in a vice!

no special tools needed...just a big f\off spannah!

More than one person has recommended a spanner rather than a socket with a breaker bar. I'm not quite sure why

I very much doubt it has failed after 11K miles, like Gus says prob just needs tightening.

I completely agree that it shouldn't have failed after such little mileage, however there is noticeable 'looseness' in some areas of the joint's movement. I've compared it with a new one (at the dealer) and while there isn't yet what I'd call play in it, it is considerably less resistant to movement than it should be. While the forks are off the bike I'd rather replace it - 'looseness' will otherwise become play, Sod's law dictating that this will be during my month's stay in Italy during which time the bike will cover several thousand miles without me having access to my own tools. I'd rather do the job now in the comfort of my own garage while I have another bike to ride than entrust the S (which for the month of June will be my only form of transport) to a Florentine bike-butcher with nothing but a crowbar and a lump hammer......

[winger]

Went the socket and spanner route with mine,had egg on my face when i saw it turned upside down tightened in a vice,said bar placed diagonly and came apart easy peasy and was put back the same way.

As for wear hmm,ownly way to tell,have bike put back together on front brake and rock the bike backwards and forwards,and see whats moveing,must say i'd go with the other two had same problem it had come undone.

[bigblackfalco]

Wear in the ball joint is usually minute. Indications are similar to worn head bearings on a standard set up. It's highly unlikely that the ball joint would have failed quickly.
Sounds like someone may have 'borrowed' your nice ball joint in place of their shagged one?! .......has it been in a dealers of late?
Bailey.

You sure the ball joint is worn or was was it not tight.I would say it was the latter,as i had to retighten mine every 10,000 miles or so.

But you're talking about the small nut on top (that attaches the balljoint to the wishbone) being loose. I'm talking about play in the joint itself.

Firstlt are we talking bottom fork yoke and ball joint?? is that what you mean by bridge??

Yes.

If so you'll have to find a big vice,buy one they ain't exspensive,turn the yoke upside down place in vice gripping the hexagon part of the ball joint,get an iron bar or similar place diagonal and put some prssure on,haveing tried all sort of things with big sockets,ajustables,took it into work bet it took all of ten seconds to get off,they did both mine and mr Sheens.

I'm guessing that getting the old one undone is the least challenging part - how about tightening up the new one? 270NM is very hard to achieve by guesswork in a vice!

no special tools needed...just a big f\off spannah!

More than one person has recommended a spanner rather than a socket with a breaker bar. I'm not quite sure why

I very much doubt it has failed after 11K miles, like Gus says prob just needs tightening.

I completely agree that it shouldn't have failed after such little mileage, however there is noticeable 'looseness' in some areas of the joint's movement. I've compared it with a new one (at the dealer) and while there isn't yet what I'd call play in it, it is considerably less resistant to movement than it should be. While the forks are off the bike I'd rather replace it - 'looseness' will otherwise become play, Sod's law dictating that this will be during my month's stay in Italy during which time the bike will cover several thousand miles without me having access to my own tools. I'd rather do the job now in the comfort of my own garage while I have another bike to ride than entrust the S (which for the month of June will be my only form of transport) to a Florentine bike-butcher with nothing but a crowbar and a lump hammer......

[sproggy]

Went the socket and spanner route with mine,had egg on my face when i saw it turned upside down tightened in a vice,said bar placed diagonly and came apart easy peasy and was put back the same way.

I used a vice and a rubber mallet - worked a treat once I got the vice done up tight enough not to let the thing jump out.

Tightening up a new joint is another matter - I'm not going to risk the same method (too imprecise torque-wise) so I'll try getting a garage to tighten it up. A torque wrench that reads that high costs over £100 so It's not worth me buying one.

As for wear hmm,ownly way to tell,have bike put back together on front brake and rock the bike backwards and forwards,and see whats moveing,must say i'd go with the other two had same problem it had come undone.

There was no noticeable deterioration in the way the balljoint was working on the bike, but having removed the forks and discovered that it was looser than it should be I decided it was better to change it now while the front end was apart than when it started to have an effect on the bike's behaviour.

Sounds like someone may have 'borrowed' your nice ball joint in place of their shagged one?! .......has it been in a dealers of late?

It had its 600 mile service in 2002, 6000 mile service in October 2005 (dry-stored in between while owner was in the far East) both at Park Lane. Since I bought it privately in June 2006 it hasn't been near a dealer. I doubt that it's been swapped.

[bigblackfalco]

Sounds like someone may have 'borrowed' your nice ball joint in place of their shagged one?! .......has it been in a dealers of late?

It had its 600 mile service in 2002, 6000 mile service in October 2005 (dry-stored in between while owner was in the far East) both at Park Lane. Since I bought it privately in June 2006 it hasn't been near a dealer. I doubt that it's been swapped.

That's enough evidence for me. Almost certainly the ball joint has been swapped whilst the bike was in for a service.
There is 0% chance of failiure of a ball joint at such a low mileage.
Bailey.

[sproggy]

That's enough evidence for me. Almost certainly the ball joint has been swapped whilst the bike was in for a service.
There is 0% chance of failiure of a ball joint at such a low mileage.
Bailey.

What would be the point for a main dealer to swap components? I don't believe that happened - I think this was just a sub-standard component that started to wear prematurely - possibly through lack of lubricant during manufacture.

[ivorbaines]

Sproggy
I have a holding device, similar to BMW tool, that I made when I removed my own ball joints, also have socket to fit ( 1" drive), used the years of experience and grunt method of torque application. If I can be of assistance please drop me a line.
Cheers
Ivor
North Bristol

[sproggy]

Ivor, thanks for the offer but you're a long way from me! I think the answer now is to try the garage around the corner from work (once I get the new balljoint) and see if they can tighten it up. I'll hold off re-painting the assembly until after the new balljoint's been fitted.

The other option, of course, would be to call Park Lane (nearest dealer to where I work) and see whether they can supply the balljoint and fit it while I wait. Surely SOME dealers must have the means to do the work!

[winger]

Sproggy

Your barking up the wrong tree mate,either paint or powder coat the bottom yoke and screw the ball joint back in and reverse the procedure when you got it out,less the rubber hammer walloping an aluminium casting is not a smart idea,hence why i mentioned the steady pressure of a bar,only you have to pad the bar out cuz you'll knock the paint off,what torque?? you've been reading to many books!!!,just tightened it up the'll still be enough crap in the threads to stop it comeing undone,the bit that you need to worry about that comes undone is the one on the top with allen key in it.