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non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:32 pm
by masha
Everything else sorted for touring and went to MOT the bike and - it wont start - sounded like a dead battery - turns over sliggishly then jams. Bought a nice brand new Odyssey cell thinking my battery wasn't upto it and... exactly the same on the brand new cell.
Could this be a dying starter motor - anything I could check before going to the trouble of stripping the bodywork again and removing the starter?
Bike was starting and running fine just 2 weekends ago - admittedly it did have an altercation with the paddock stand last weekend that bent the gear lever (now replaced with a straight spare), and goes in and out of neutral okay so I don't think starter problem is linked to the gear pedal linkage issue (but admittedly its weird the starting issue occurred at the same time).
Any advice on starting issues appreciated.
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:19 pm
by slparry
As the starter is located "near" the gear lever could it have sustained a knock? Perhaps damaging it or the cables powering it?
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:24 pm
by nab 301
masha wrote:Could this be a dying starter motor - anything I could check before going to the trouble of stripping the bodywork again and removing the starter?
Any advice on starting issues appreciated.
You have a new battery , can you confirm that you have full voltage at the starter motor and then see what it does when the engine is attempting to crank. Assuming that your new battery isn't faulty it certainly sounds like a duff starter ( good repair sticky on ukgser...)
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:44 pm
by masha
yes, some good suggestions there - thanks
It does seem a bit of a coincidence it started playing up after the bent gear change incident.
I will get the belly pan off Sunday afternoon, and the cover off the starter and investigate futher the cables and voltage then.
Its strange also how when you crank it over all the lights die on the display as if something is really sapping power.
I will investigate further and report back. Also on another friends advise - I will try removing a couple of plugs putting it in gear and attempting to rotate the back wheel to assess there is no untoward seizure in the motor that might explain why the starter is struggling. I would be surprised at this as
I ran it up 2 weeks ago just fine.
thanks
M
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:01 pm
by slparry
masha wrote:yes, some good suggestions there - thanks
It does seem a bit of a coincidence it started playing up after the bent gear change incident.
I will get the belly pan off Sunday afternoon, and the cover off the starter and investigate futher the cables and voltage then.
Its strange also how when you crank it over all the lights die on the display as if something is really sapping power.
I will investigate further and report back. Also on another friends advise - I will try removing a couple of plugs putting it in gear and attempting to rotate the back wheel to assess there is no untoward seizure in the motor that might explain why the starter is struggling. I would be surprised at this as
I ran it up 2 weeks ago just fine.
thanks
M
I'm wondering if the starter motor could have been bent slightly causing a bind ?
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:11 pm
by Jeff Highland
Perhaps it was knocked out of alignment and is binding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml43uG8QcGU at the 5.00 mark it gives a procedure for aligning
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:16 pm
by masha
Thanks Steve & Jeff - I got the starter motor off this afternoon and it appears to have failed (doesn't spin and just smells like the armature is burning out). As it was easier than I thought to get off I will borrow the starter off my spare R1100S - if it works, which I am hopeful it should - I will just add it to the list of things I need for my other bike.
Linked to this and assuming I need a new starter - who makes a good one, or where is a good source for new replacement?
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:19 pm
by masha
on another note - I did find a slightly crushed cable when I removed the plastic starter cover (turned out it was sandwiched between the cover at the rear fixing point - it appears to run to a sensor of some description at the rear of the engine.
Back on starters - does anyone recondition failed units in the UK?
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:16 pm
by slparry
masha wrote:on another note - I did find a slightly crushed cable when I removed the plastic starter cover (turned out it was sandwiched between the cover at the rear fixing point - it appears to run to a sensor of some description at the rear of the engine.
Back on starters - does anyone recondition failed units in the UK?
http://www.motoelectrical.co.uk/product ... or-spr0008
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:02 pm
by das bike u1100s
Had same problem on my bcr few years back. Turned out to be a part in the starter motor coming free and shorting out giving knackered battery symptoms. Put back into place, starter motor given A1 condition by engineer problem sorted, just bad design/manufacturing.
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:22 am
by masha
Thanks for the links and tips....
Sure enough it was the starter - I took swapped it for the starter on my 'spare' R1100 - and it spun up very healthily with a new Odyssey cell fitted.
I will hang onto the old one in case I can find a way to diagnose what failed on it,
Interesting the starter on my '04 R1100s was a Valeo D6RA75 model part no [26F4 0014 LC] stamped on ( guess this could be s/n)
whereas the starter on my '05 R1100s was D6RA75 model part no [17F4 0516 9C]
... but essentially the same item, just a year between them
This looks like a generic starter used elsewhere (a part from the little removable power take-off part on the +ve terminal which is a BMW part) - does anyone know if its same as a starter used in other vehicles and which vehicles?
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:29 am
by slparry
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:39 am
by Hay Ewe^
sounds like the magnets may have detached from the inside. Happened on my 1150GS two years ago, sounds like similar symptons anyway.
You can get replacement parts from EuroMotoElec in the USA
also, as said earlier, good thread on UKGSER and likely ADV in the GSpot
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:53 pm
by JamesL
R11xx starters seem to be something of a consumable... I swap knackered ones for a reconditioned unit from Motorworks, very helpful. Also i take it off before the winter and give it a good clean, ACF50 etc for the salt.
I crushed the electrical feed from the oil pressure sensor when refitting once; worth looking out for?
J
Re: non-starter R1100S all of a sudden! - won't turn over as if battery is flat, but its not.
Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:02 pm
by Two Stroke Cat
Well,
I've followed this thread and guess what happened today?
Same thing, would turn over and all cockpit lights are flickering indicating flat battery.
Tried a couple more times and she started without hesitation.
Thanks for the good advise in above communications.
Will take mine off and investigate, too.
Must be a common fault on them - mine just turned to 51K - Twin spark model 2003