www.boxertrix.com

Talking to one of the sales guys at a nearby large multi franchise dealership (inc Triumph), the other day, who told me that despite the good Summer we've just had, bike sales are flat and still dropping.
Had the same chat with my local BMW dealer, who say's they're selling bikes hand over fist.
So what's going on do you reckon ?

BMW have inspired the market and left the others struggling in their wake (who'd have thought it).....

This was what I was trying to drum home to those fossils in the "other" club, BMW's target market has grown from the cardigan clad, slipper shod, pipe smoking, werther originals aircooled boxers image, to a slicker more dynamic marque that's selling to the aspirational and sports riders, and hurting the sales of the Japanese etc. Hurting to the point that they've dictated model direction, for instance look how much impact the GS range has had and how the Japanese have tried their best to create (mostly poor) look a likes, or how much the S1000RR shook the complacency of the Japanese stranglehold on the market as a first hyper sports attempt, or how the little F800 has pushed sales of twins and the 800 class along.

The RT has been an incredible success, in the face of stiff competition from the Japanese. No matter how fast they make their sports tourers the old 12RT keeps getting favourable reports in road tests globally.

Triumph appears to be attempting to emulate BMW's model range even more closely than the Japanese are. Where they fall down, for me, is their dealer franchises are often disinterested, multi franchise affairs, whereas the BMW ones appear more focused with being a single marque. Sure there will be good and bad dealers in both camps but in general my experience with BMW dealers has been more favourable than negative.

Same with the Japanese, the dealers are now multi franchise and just can't offer the same support levels as when a single franchise. When I worked for Kawasaki dealers where Kawasaki dealers, a few also sold some euro marques, but the majority where solo franchise and were prohibited from being Honda/Suzuki/Yamaha dealerships, at the time it was the same for all the marques.

Then I believe the EU changed it all, which has been to the detriment to motorcycling as it waters down the available service.

For instance each business has an achievable turnover, whether single or multi franchise, that turnover has to support the running of the business and the important bit for me, the available parts stock. It doesn't take much figuring to work out that 10% of turnover allocated for parts stock stretches a lot further when it's a single marque than a multi marque franchise.

Of course the flip side of this massive success and growth has been a loss of QC, which in turn has meant problems for newer BMW's. However, to their credit most of the time BMW has fronted up and sorted repairs, certainly on my KGT.

The same cannot be said for some of the other marques at times.

slparry wrote:This was what I was trying to drum home to those fossils in the "other" club, BMW's target market has grown from the cardigan clad, slipper shod, pipe smoking, werther originals aircooled boxers image, to a slicker more dynamic marque that's selling to the aspirational and sports riders, and hurting the sales of the Japanese etc. .

All very true re Triumph dealers and multi franchises.

I will no longer use my local dealer unless I'm REALLY pushed for something. I do, however believe you're correct in general in what you say Steve about them being perhaps more focused. Unfortunately it was also my local Kawasaki dealer that failed to impress. Where I bought my Kawasaki from (J & L in Carlisle), I was very impressed with and if I do get another Versys, it will be going there for service

bikesnbones wrote:Talking to one of the sales guys at a nearby large multi franchise dealership (inc Triumph), the other day, who told me that despite the good Summer we've just had, bike sales are flat and still dropping.
Had the same chat with my local BMW dealer, who say's they're selling bikes hand over fist.
So what's going on do you reckon ?

My tuppence worth;
Think the majority of people who ride bikes these days mostly do so a seasonal hobby. (a new bike is an expensive hobby?)

The price of a new small car is often less than a new motorcycle yet is as (or more) economical than a bike, most new small cars pay little or no road tax where a motorcycle is £78 per year (outrageous )

Someone on here recently pointed out that youngsters are no longer interested in 2-wheeel transport. (most youngsters at my work place aren't interested in bikes)

I passed my bike test 4-weeks after my 17th birthday; the test consisted of nipping round a pre-agreed circuit where the examiner would pop-out from behind a hedge/wall with his clip-board to 'assess' your skills...... there was no limit as to what size of bike/power I could own after that day. The modern day tests involve much more (a good thing for safety reasons) and youngsters are restricted by age/power.

The condition of the UK roads is getting worse/ more dangerous year on year.

People don't have any spare cash.

Rob

p.s. Dave the German, I bought an ex-demo Versys1000 in April of this year and after covering 4000-'hobby' miles to date, can say it's the best bike I've ever owned......dare I say such a thing on the Trixter forum? (still got our trusty 11S)

You raise a vital point Rob, the fact they're not enthusing youngsters means that the market is going to shrink even more.

The big manufacturers should be almost giving away 125's to "catch" them as customers and buy into the brand loyalty that often accompanies it.

If I were a youngster now with the choices being horrendously expensive 125's or hideous Chinese crap or scooters I'm not sure I'd raise much interest either

big rob wrote:
I bought an ex-demo Versys1000 in April of this year and after covering 4000-'hobby' miles to date, can say it's the best bike I've ever owned......dare I say such a thing on the Trixter forum? (still got our trusty 11S)

I think you're bang-on with those observations.

And - that's no faint praise for the Versys - a bike which a large proportion of the "trailie-touring" market - ignore (me included).

Al

"... can say it's the best bike I've ever owned......dare I say such a thing on the Trixter forum? Embarassed..."

Cough, cough ....bloody 'ell, almost choked on me Wurthers

Mike

slparry wrote:You raise a vital point Rob, the fact they're not enthusing youngsters means that the market is going to shrink even more.

I disagree.
Look around at what the kids can buy now 50cc to 125cc and nothing we had back then can hold a candle.
Some of them I'd be perfectly happy to own.
When the become available on the used market, I'm going to seriously think about buying one of these for a bit of fun.

some crap scooters or some horrendously overpriced R1 replicas?

That bike in the picture is that the MSX125 Honda? £2800 plus delivery and OTR costs ... so £3000 ... for something that as an adult may look fun but for a youngster would mean them derided by their mates.

In fact it's the ONLY 125 that seems to be on offer from Honda

http://www.Honda.co.uk/motorcycles/125cc/#!/msx125/

and isn't even available until summer 2013

Suzuki fares no better with only 2 offerings

https://www.suzuki-gb.co.uk/motorcycles/motorcycles/

the VanVan 125 at £3150 plus del and OTR

and the DR125 at £3000 plus del and OTR

Kawasaki also seem to have 2 offerings

http://www.kawasaki.co.uk/dualpurpose

a £2950 KLX125 an a super motard version at £3100 again plus del and otr

Yamaha have more offerings but at eye watering prices

http://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products/ ... -r125.aspx

The wr125 is £4200 plus del and otr
the R1 replica 125 is £4350 plus del and otr
the ybr 125 £2500 plus del and otr

After that there's just scooters and chinese crap.

To say" nothing we had then" (as learners) .... are you mad?

Kawasaki KH250's, KLR250's, Suzuki X7's, TS250ER's and GSX250's, Yamaha RD250LC's, DT250's and XS250's, Kawasaki Z250A/B or C models, Honda CB250

Kawasaki Z200, Yamaha RD200, Suzuki GT185, Honda CB200

Kawasaki KE175, Suzuki TS185, Yamaha DT175MX, Honda XL185

Kawasaki KE125, KH125, Suzuki GT125, TS125, Yamaha RD125LC, Honda CB125 Twin and Single, XL125

Kawasaki KC, KE and KH100, Suzuki TS100, Yamaha DT100, Honda CB100N

Then similar choices of 50's and 80cc machines along with choices from many european manufacturers too.

I've probably missed some but those were some of the options available to a youngster when I was starting and were a damn site more affordable as the market was busier.

To expect a new rider to shove over £4000 for a 125 plus all the kit etc is crazy and it's no wonder they forego it and just buy a car instead!

The manufacturers really need to offer the learner bikes as loss leaders to tempt newbies to be long term customers

Steve, you've hit the nail on the head with your last post.
as a yoof 'back in the day' it was cheaper to buy and run a bike than it was for a decent-ish car, as we all know, once you've experienced the bike thing you're generally hooked for life.

Blackal: If you get the opportunity have a test run on the 1000 Versys: ABS as standard, traction control as standard, comfortable riding position, 17" Wheels to which you can fit any tyres you prefer, 2-up capability, stonking engine etc etc AND you can snap-up an ex-demo OR new one for very reasonable money.

Cheers Rob (Versys convert)

Honda should have nailed it with the CBF 125. I actually bought mine in January 2009 to have delivered in march 2009 for the total of £1800 for a brand new bike. The bloke in the dealers at the time said they'd sold loads of them in the few months it'd been out and that he thought they would increase the price because of how cheap it is. They did. By the time i got mine they were 2 grand. I think now they're usually around 2200 or more.

£1800 for a brand new bike from a well respected manufacturer was very reasonable I thought to get people in to biking. Anything more doesn't really encourage anyone.

Plus how many of you lot would do 4 tests and several years of restrictions?

SAS Tom wrote:Honda should have nailed it with the CBF 125. I actually bought mine in January 2009 to have delivered in march 2009 for the total of £1800 for a brand new bike. The bloke in the dealers at the time said they'd sold loads of them in the few months it'd been out and that he thought they would increase the price because of how cheap it is. They did. By the time i got mine they were 2 grand. I think now they're usually around 2200 or more.

£1800 for a brand new bike from a well respected manufacturer was very reasonable I thought to get people in to biking. Anything more doesn't really encourage anyone.

Plus how many of you lot would do 4 tests and several years of restrictions?

another well made point Tom, the rot set in when the legislation was announced restricting learners to 125's as opposed to 250's .... and arguably you can thank the Japanese for that for providing learners with bikes capable of 100mph (as much as I loved them! ).

To me though, if you rode poorly you'd stand a good chance of killing yourself, the difference now is if they drive poorly they'll probably take out themselves and 4 mates who are crammed into your car and are probably egging you on in the process.

The whole restriction thing for newbies is a total mess. I am really surprised no one has brought an action against it re art.14 of the HRA as it's plain that there is a disparity between the car and bike set ups. Plus assuming you're rich enough there's nowt to stop you passing your test and having Daddy buy you an Aston Martin, whereas with bikes you're restricted after passing. It's wrong, plain prejudicially wrong!

big rob wrote:Steve, you've hit the nail on the head with your last post.
as a yoof 'back in the day' it was cheaper to buy and run a bike than it was for a decent-ish car, as we all know, once you've experienced the bike thing you're generally hooked for life.

<snip>

Cheers Rob (Versys convert)

The manufacturers really need to start looking at the starter market or they're very quickly going to run out of customers and motorcycling will fade away as something some people did up until the, what, 2040's ? After that there may be a few duffers with "classic" bikes but that'll be it

slparry wrote:

big rob wrote:Steve, you've hit the nail on the head with your last post.
as a yoof 'back in the day' it was cheaper to buy and run a bike than it was for a decent-ish car, as we all know, once you've experienced the bike thing you're generally hooked for life.

<snip>

Cheers Rob (Versys convert)

The manufacturers really need to start looking at the starter market or they're very quickly going to run out of customers and motorcycling will fade away as something some people did up until the, what, 2040's ? After that there may be a few duffers with "classic" bikes but that'll be it

Uk market, perhaps.

Globally?