Slipping Clutch

jivebiker · Post by **jivebiker** » Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:24 pm

I havent ridden the R11S for a few weeks cause of snow, bad back etc, and today used it for work (25 miles each way).
On the way I had occasion to gun it from some lights, but instead of charging away as usual, it just redlined with a fully engaged clutch. Once it had bitten, after dipping the throttle, it still let go a little.
It did the same at the next set of lights. Then it seemed to get a bit better, but a lack of testing oportunities left me not knowing if the problem had cleared.

On my way home it seemed fine, although with -2 C on the thermometer I was taking it easy.... until I had a prat to get past in a hurry. I changed down a couple, and nailed it. The clutch totally refused to bite, and I crept past the car in a flurry of revs and not much else. Again once it had bitten it seemed a lot better, but I managed to provoke it into letting go a few times before getting home.

Has anyone else had this?

Until today the clutch has never slipped, and always felt very strong, biting exactly as I needed, except when I had insufficient fluid after a service(!).

I have noticed a small amount of oily substance around the swingarm spindle area, about the middle.

The bike uses about a quarter of a pint of oil every 500 miles or so.

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:21 am

Bet you a fiver the clutch oil seal has gone. It's a relatively common fault and worst when the engine's hot.
Is your bike under warranty? If not...
Do you have a full service history? If so...
Go for a goodwill replacement.

Good luck

jivebiker · Post by **jivebiker** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:44 am

3 weeks warranty left....phew!

But which dealer is best? Im in Chesham, Bucks. Nearest are listed as Sawbridgeworth (Hertford), Coopers (Reading), and Park Lane (er...Park Lane!), all 23miles away!
I tried Coopers for the last service, but could never get to speak to anyone to make an appointment, no-one ever returned my calls.
I have a work colleague who uses Vines.

What do you reckon?

Is this a big job?

I assume I'll get a loaner while they have mine?

Jason M · Post by **Jason M** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:18 am

I'm probably being a bit thick here, but if the clutch seal had gone wouldn't it a) be a constant problem and b) not disengage rather than slip? Could it be the clutch plate is sticking on the spline when you pull the clutch in and not sliding back down properly when you release? I thought other people had had problems with not enough lubrication on their shafts

and this very cold weather could exasperate the problem. I bunged a nice bit of moly grease on when I had it out. Do you get the problem at all during clutchless changes on the way up the box? Having said that, the clutch slave cylinder is located up around the swingarm pivot and the bleed valve is there too so maybe that's where the liquid is coming from.

Hope you get it sorted anyway.

Jason

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 8:27 am

I know what you mean Jason - but when my first R1100R did this, it had the same symptoms. It'd bite at some times, then let go somewhat unpredictably.

Deffo a 'take it to the stealer and get it sorted' job, especially under warranty.

JB - it is a big job, not difficult but somewhat time-consuming as it's engine/box out etc etc.

Jason M · Post by **Jason M** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:03 am

Ahhhh - I see - probably the seal letting fluid onto the clutch plate you mean. I guess that's possible. The slave is a fair way from the clutch as I remember though

Agree with Grom re the dealers, especially if it's under warranty. Deffo a reasonably big job and very time consuming if the box has to come out (cos the plate is covered in fluid) - having said that, just changing the seals can be done quite easily cos getting the clutch slave cylinder out is a pretty quick straightforward job - just take the starter off and then you should be able to get it out.

Jason

Boxadog 2000 · Post by **Boxadog 2000** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:11 pm

I have found North Oxford Garage to be quite a good Dealer theyy are to be found suprisingly in Oxford on the Headley Road roundabout I think.

Bob

Gromit · Post by **Gromit** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:13 pm

Boxadog 2000 wrote:I have found North Oxford Garage to be quite a good Dealer theyy are to be found suprisingly in Oxford on the Headley Road roundabout I think.

Bob

I think I know the one - junction of the A40/A34.

gus · Post by **gus** » Fri Mar 04, 2005 6:38 pm

Have you checked fluid level?
When the clutch wears the level increase and can cause havok.
Just a quick and easy check to eliminate a possible cause.
It does sound you have a clutch seal problem if you have a oily substance between crankcase and gearbox housing.
gus

jivebiker · Post by **jivebiker** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:42 pm

I have checked the clutch fluid level, its fine, the only other thing I thought was that there could be a bit of a blockage in the fluid line, this doesnt explain the oil behind the engine though, so...

Have had taken away for repair.
Mondial had the bike collected to go to Sawbridgeworth M/Cs, last night (Friday) for delivery first thing Saturday.
Sawbridgewoth had a mechanic on standby, to sort out ASAP, but bike not delivered. Instead it is stuck in a secure store at SOS recovery (who collected for Mondial). It was scheduled for delivery on Monday instead, but Sawbridgeworth are closed Mondays. SOS could not retrieve the bike from the store as no-one has weekend access!

Now the mechanic isnt free for a few days, so bike is gone and Im stuck. Mondial will give me £35 per day for transport costs, or a hire car. I dont drive, and just a cab to work is about £40. Public transport is a non-starter, unless I want to add 2 hours to each end of a 12 hour working day. Mondial nominally give 4 days for this problem, but it looks like its gonna be more, so Im into getting extensions on taxi reimbursements.

I thought things seemed too easy when Mondial seemed to be sorting it all out. Then again its better than any service Ive ever had from the Japs, or Triumph. Just hope to get the bike back soon.

Jason M · Post by **Jason M** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:00 pm

What a flippin nightmate - hope you get it back soon anyway

jivebiker · Post by **jivebiker** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:13 pm

Well the saga is now resolved.Bike returned this morning, 8 days after been taken for repair.

Sawbridgeworth have replaced the clutch, although why it was slipping is still a bit of a mystery. It apparently looked a bit cooked, probably due to the slipping problem, as I am generally very kind to clutches.There was no evidence of oil on it though, I hope this isnt an inherent weakness in BMW's dry clutch set up.

While sorting this out, the mechanic also found that the air filter certainly hadnt been replaced at the 12k service, which was done less than 3000 miles ago at Hughenden M40. This is almost certainly why I had filthy sprk plugs (black soot) and problems starting a few weeks ago - see thread "Poor Starting / Running Rich". The filter had several of last summers flies in it (I had it sent back with the bike to see for myself) and looked way beyond its service life!

Sawbridgeworth also found the throttle way out of sync, and done wrong, and replaced the paralever bearings as these were a bit notchy.

Bike now feels great, starts easily, and runs as smoothly as it did before the 12k service.(See thread "Bleeding Hydraulic Clutch!"

So a big Thanks! to Sawbridgeworth Motorcycles, who will be getting my business from now on, also Thankyou to Mondial for their help in recovering and returning my bike, and for the £35 per day towards taxis. It may have started with a few hitches but generally I'm extremely pleased with the level of service. Triumph should take note!

And a big thumbs down to Hughenden for screwing up the last service! I wont be back..... ever!

Boxadog 2000 · Post by **Boxadog 2000** » Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:44 pm

Hughenden are no longer BMW Stealers

sandbar · Post by **sandbar** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:04 pm

Hughenden are no longer BMW Stealers

and haven't been for over 18 months!! When BMW took the franchise away to give to North Oxford Garages, the owners of Hughenden M40 sold the business. Complete change of owner and most of the staff as well!!

Still Triumph and CCM - I believe.

Sandbar

jivebiker · Post by **jivebiker** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:32 am

That explains why they dont appear to know their arse from their elbow - speaking from experience, they are in good company as a Triumph dealer.