Another bad year for bike sales

[Corvus]

Bikes have always been an expensive indulgence.
It's not some new phenomena........

Not always and not even now, surely?

In Britain right up to the early sixties they were the only viable means of powered transport, even family transport, for a lot of people, no?

And thinking globally, the same still applies, no?

I'm not sure about the present situation in Britain as I've lost touch with that end of the market. How much can a 125 be bought for?

[Twinspark]

Bikes have always been an expensive indulgence.
It's not some new phenomena
In 2006 someone paid £9,000 for my R1200S
Seven years later, something comparible is going to cost about 3 grand more.
Have a look and see how much car prices have increased over the same period.

Just looked.

Taking an average car - say a Focus 1.6 diesel Zetec.

Price in 2006 - £16.5k

Price today - £18.4k

Fag packet calculation says bikes have gone up circa 30%, with cars up somewhere between 11 and 15%.

[bikesnbones]

Bikes have always been an expensive indulgence.
It's not some new phenomena........

Not always and not even now, surely?

In Britain right up to the early sixties they were the only viable means of powered transport, even family transport, for a lot of people, no?

And thinking globally, the same still applies, no?

I'm not sure about the present situation in Britain as I've lost touch with that end of the market. How much can a 125 be bought for?

Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential.
Cars took over with the advent of the Mini in the late 50's, and up to that point yes, bikes were the transport for the masses due to the prohibitive cost of the motor car.
As regards prices.

Fag packet calculation says bikes have gone up circa 30%, with cars up somewhere between 11 and 15%.

I said in an earlier post.
I bought a new ZZR1100 in 1996 for £8995, reduced from 10 grand, which is about what a new ZZR1400 costs now.

[Twinspark]

A ZZR1400 is listed at £11.7k.

A ZZR1100 was £9.6k in 1996. Ouch.

However... 1996 was before we saw a massive price-readjustment in the UK bike market due to the increasing number of parallel imports being punted out by the likes of Motorcycle City and Carnell.

The perspective on that is that a mid 2000s ZZR1200 was cheaper (new) than the 1996 ZZR1100.

We need another late 90s readjustment in prices, really.

[Corvus]

Bikes have always been an expensive indulgence.
It's not some new phenomena........

Not always and not even now, surely?

In Britain right up to the early sixties they were the only viable means of powered transport, even family transport, for a lot of people, no?

And thinking globally, the same still applies, no?

I'm not sure about the present situation in Britain as I've lost touch with that end of the market. How much can a 125 be bought for?

Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential.
Cars took over with the advent of the Mini in the late 50's, and up to that point yes, bikes were the transport for the masses due to the prohibitive cost of the motor car.
As regards prices.

Fag packet calculation says bikes have gone up circa 30%, with cars up somewhere between 11 and 15%.

I said in an earlier post.
I bought a new ZZR1100 in 1996 for £8995, reduced from 10 grand, which is about what a new ZZR1400 costs now.

Fair point. But don't forget bikes are quite feasible down to very small capacities. 125cc for example. In fact, on a lot of levels, that is where they make the most sense.

[bikesnbones]

A ZZR1400 is listed at £11.7k.

A ZZR1100 was £9.6k in 1996. Ouch.

However... 1996 was before we saw a massive price-readjustment in the UK bike market due to the increasing number of parallel imports being punted out by the likes of Motorcycle City and Carnell.

The perspective on that is that a mid 2000s ZZR1200 was cheaper (new) than the 1996 ZZR1100.

We need another late 90s readjustment in prices, really.

This was my point,
We became too used to rock bottom prices.
What happened with imports was a good thing, but ever since, prices have remained unrealistically low.
I'm pretty sure the importers have not raised prices for a bit of a laugh.
Bikes are produced in tiny volumes compared to cars, and so manufacturing costs are high in comparison.
As for another price readjustment, I think those days have been and gone.
Where do you go to import a bike at a significantly lower cost than the UK ?
Check out the costs of bike in mainland Europe now.

[Corvus]

Bikesnbones said: "Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential. "


I'm struggling with that one. I bought a brand new 400four in 1977. I used it everyday 7 days a week. Commute to work. Visit mates on an evening. Go for runs on weekends. What would a fiesta pop have cost in comparison? I admit I wasn't interested in owning a car, so I wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to the cost, but memory tells me I couldn't have got a fiesta for anywhere near the price of a 400four. And to match the fiesta on performance? A Honda CB100 should have been about right? Then consider the mpg difference.

[Blackal]

Bikesnbones said: "Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential. "


I'm struggling with that one. I bought a brand new 400four in 1977. I used it everyday 7 days a week. Commute to work. Visit mates on an evening. Go for runs on weekends. What would a fiesta pop have cost in comparison? I admit I wasn't interested in owning a car, so I wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to the cost, but memory tells me I couldn't have got a fiesta for anywhere near the price of a 400four. And to match the fiesta on performance? A Honda CB100 should have been about right? Then consider the mpg difference.

Not everyone - falls into a generalisation.

I can't help thinking that despite the cost advantage of the bike/scooter against the car in the late '50s, '60s' '70s - there was an underlying interest in motorcycles for everyone who chose that route - seemingly on a cost-basis?

But - today, that might be different? In Edinburgh - when it looked like the local government was heading towards "Congestion Charging" as a means of reducing congestion/increasing revenues*
(* - delete where applicable )

- there was an appreciation that scooter/learner-bike sales / CBT would increase - as the savings to be made were sufficient to put a significant number of people onto two wheels.

I don't care if motorcycle sales/development runs down from this point onwards...............

There are enough exciting/competent/reliable bikes available in Europe right now - to see me out. Who gives a shit if future generations get to ride bikes or not?

Or - do we think that motorcycling is an activity to be preserved for the future?

Al

[cornishflat]

Bikesnbones said: "Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential. "


I'm struggling with that one. I bought a brand new 400four in 1977. I used it everyday 7 days a week. Commute to work. Visit mates on an evening. Go for runs on weekends. What would a fiesta pop have cost in comparison? I admit I wasn't interested in owning a car, so I wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to the cost, but memory tells me I couldn't have got a fiesta for anywhere near the price of a 400four. And to match the fiesta on performance? A Honda CB100 should have been about right? Then consider the mpg difference.

Me too. Although holding a car license i did,nt want or need a car until my girlfriend and I bought a property. Even then the car was for building gear and the shopping. At that time we covered about 11000 miles a year and 10000 of those were by two wheels.
As we had moved into a city environment and the Ducati 900 was,nt the most forgiving in town i looked for a cheap commuter. Well after helping a friend he "kindly" gave me a Puch moped to serve my purpose. Man that was an eye opener, a top whack of 30 mph and the acceleration of a snail, needless to say it was soon moved on....before i was thank goodness.

[bikesnbones]

I'm struggling with that one. I bought a brand new 400four in 1977. I used it everyday 7 days a week. Commute to work. Visit mates on an evening. Go for runs on weekends. What would a fiesta pop have cost in comparison? I admit I wasn't interested in owning a car, so I wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to the cost, but memory tells me I couldn't have got a fiesta for anywhere near the price of a 400four. And to match the fiesta on performance? A Honda CB100 should have been about right? Then consider the mpg difference.

Me too.
I started a bit later than you in 1982, and my bikes were my every day transport, but you cannot compare us to generations of riders before us, who had bikes because cars were not affordable.
I had bikes for years before I did my car test, and at any point during that time I could easily have done my test and bought a decent used Fiesta.
For our predecessors during the 50's and 60's, that would have been a lot harder.

[Corvus]

Bikesnbones said: "Certainly, in the time most of us have been riding, bikes have always been a luxury item.
Desirable but not essential. "


I'm struggling with that one. I bought a brand new 400four in 1977. I used it everyday 7 days a week. Commute to work. Visit mates on an evening. Go for runs on weekends. What would a fiesta pop have cost in comparison? I admit I wasn't interested in owning a car, so I wouldn't have paid a lot of attention to the cost, but memory tells me I couldn't have got a fiesta for anywhere near the price of a 400four. And to match the fiesta on performance? A Honda CB100 should have been about right? Then consider the mpg difference.

Not everyone - falls into a generalisation.

I can't help thinking that despite the cost advantage of the bike/scooter against the car in the late '50s, '60s' '70s - there was an underlying interest in motorcycles for everyone who chose that route - seemingly on a cost-basis?

But - today, that might be different? In Edinburgh - when it looked like the local government was heading towards "Congestion Charging" as a means of reducing congestion/increasing revenues*
(* - delete where applicable )

- there was an appreciation that scooter/learner-bike sales / CBT would increase - as the savings to be made were sufficient to put a significant number of people onto two wheels.

I don't care if motorcycle sales/development runs down from this point onwards...............

There are enough exciting/competent/reliable bikes available in Europe right now - to see me out. Who gives a shit if future generations get to ride bikes or not?

Or - do we think that motorcycling is an activity to be preserved for the future?

Al

Development. It won't matter if development runs down, stops or even reverses. Bikes are way over developed for road use anyway. Speed limits haven't risen in line with machinery capability.

Future generations. Modern democracy is so tenuous it doesn't matter what we think or want. We'll do as we are told. (We=the vast majority of people on the planet).

I think single track vehicles will preserve themselves for the future.

They're brilliant devices.

[Twinspark]

Development. It won't matter if development runs down, stops or even reverses. Bikes are way over developed for road use anyway. Speed limits haven't risen in line with machinery capability.

You have a point here.

The Honda NC700S is a great example of what the real world needs - decent power, amazing economy, but a very competitive price point.

The list price is £5.5k.

Stick a decent fairing and panniers on one of those, and you'd have a great tourer, too.

Don't think it would take too much to turn one into a properly usable sports bike, either.

[Corvus]

Cornishflat said:".......a Puch moped to serve my purpose. Man that was an eye opener, a top whack of 30 mph and the acceleration of a snail....."


Too embarrassed to use the pedals? Ha ha. Don't blame you. My first moped (of three in one year) was a motobecane. That was "kindly" given to me too. The acceleration was pretty swift if you "assisted" with the pedals. But no way. Wouldn't lower myself.

But how far would 50cc get you in a car? Er, absolutely nowhere.

[Corvus]

Development. It won't matter if development runs down, stops or even reverses. Bikes are way over developed for road use anyway. Speed limits haven't risen in line with machinery capability.

You have a point here.

The Honda NC700S is a great example of what the real world needs - decent power, amazing economy, but a very competitive price point.

The list price is £5.5k.

Stick a decent fairing and panniers on one of those, and you'd have a great tourer, too.

Don't think it would take too much to turn one into a properly usable sports bike, either.

I think maybe it's an early sign of a "shift"?

I'm thinking something akin to an xbr500 makes better use of my 45hp. Much lighter.

[Twinspark]

I adore the XBR / GB 500.

But... big singles aren't the answer - too harsh for everyday use and have limited longevity.

The 700 may not have an abundance of power, but it has massive gobs of torque where you need it.

Possibly needs more power if it's ever going to be adapted for sports and touring use - but it's a great example of what can be done if you take the focus away from outright performance and weight saving.