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OK OK , wondered if that one would re-surface again Nice

Daveg2812 wrote:OK OK , wondered if that one would re-surface again Nice

re surface ! I have its iron on image on my pillows

Daveg2812 wrote: I wouldn't have looked twice at a 12S when I bought my 11S, didn't fancy them at all till I saw one in the metal at my first Boxertrix meet in Moffat ( it was Steve Boxered's to be precise). If ever there's a bike that looks better when you're stood alongside it than in any photo, it has to be a 12S.

S'prolly 'cos it's black

Steve

Boxered wrote:

Daveg2812 wrote: I wouldn't have looked twice at a 12S when I bought my 11S, didn't fancy them at all till I saw one in the metal at my first Boxertrix meet in Moffat ( it was Steve Boxered's to be precise). If ever there's a bike that looks better when you're stood alongside it than in any photo, it has to be a 12S.

S'prolly 'cos it's black

Steve

careful the race nazis will be after you!

Must admit the best looking 12S's I've seen were PB's and Matt's in Wales a couple of years ago - all they did was have the bike painted all black, including the frame tubes. Looked fabulous...and not even the tiniest bit of rim-tape in sight.

Got some pics of them on the pooter at home, will dig them out.

The best thing to do is to have a test ride on an R12S to see what you think.

An R12S would be more powerful & lighter and a noticable sporty step-up from a standard R11S, but I don't know if the on-road difference would be significant over an R11S modded with lennies/etc. If you're looking at changing for pure sporting reasons, I found the R12S in standard form to be a good sporty-toury bike but it needs cash spending on it to make it a pukka sports bike. You could use that cash to get your BCR exactly how you want it. Don't get me wrong, I really rate the R12S, but it has it's limitations as standard as a 'sports bike'.

As others have said, another thing to consider is future value. I know a lot would disagree but I think the R12S prices are unrealistically high at the moment. Okay there aren't many around but then the market for them is small and most people who want one have probably already got one. Prices should really come down a lot. The BCR, on the other hand, is perceived as being a 'limited edition special' and it stands a good chance of keeping it's value.

If you decide on an R12S, given that you have multiple bikes, I suppose the best thing would be to sell your BCR in the summer (highest price) and buy the R12S in the winter (lowest price)!

but as standard the quoted 98hp of the R11S is appreciably less than the quoted 122hp of the R12S? Surely 24hp is a noticeable lump of extra. Having said that my 'Cup seemed to "keep up" with 12's on trix weekends.

I can live without the silly cam thingy throttle fitted to the 12 tho'

slparry wrote:but as standard the quoted 98hp of the R11S is appreciably less than the quoted 122hp of the R12S? Surely 24hp is a noticeable lump of extra. Having said that my 'Cup seemed to "keep up" with 12's on trix weekends.

I can live without the silly cam thingy throttle fitted to the 12 tho'

Steve - I was lucky enough to have a full afternoon's ride on an R1200S (it was PB's actually) all around the Yorks Dales o na Trixter weekend when I had my '04 BCR. Admittedly my BCR wasn't wearing fancy 'spenders or owt but it was Lennie'd/SJ'd and Laser'd.

Getting back on the 1100 it felt like riding a truck - I've always said that unless you're taking a passenger on a regular basis, over distance, I'd take the 12 any day of the week. It's much lighter on its feet, significantly quicker (the engine spins up much more readily, and is smoother to boot) and for me was a fair bit comfier - which was a surprise. I remember feeling quite depressed about it all at the time!!

Oh...and that funny cam-throttle thing took about 10 mins to get used to.

Best thing is get a test ride on one - of course you may not end up being a fan of it, but give the bike a bit of grief (within the speed limit of course, as I know you will lol!) and it's a lovely thing to ride. Point to point it's a bloody quick and comfy motorcycle.

slparry wrote:but as standard the quoted 98hp of the R11S is appreciably less than the quoted 122hp of the R12S? Surely 24hp is a noticeable lump of extra. Having said that my 'Cup seemed to "keep up" with 12's on trix weekends.

I can live without the silly cam thingy throttle fitted to the 12 tho'

Hi Steve. Yes, an R12S should be much quicker than a standard R11S.

But I've seen people say a modified R11S (with Lennies and all the Carlos Fandango stuff) is supposed to give about 95-100 'real' bhp (as opposed to a 'real' 75-80 of a standard bike?), which is only about 10 down on an R12S. And as the boxers are really about torque, I'm guessing there wouldn't be a major 'straight-line' performance difference between a standard R12S and a modded R11S (on the road). Maybe there's someone on here who has ridden both who can either confirm that or shoot me down in flames?

Having said that, the lighter weight of the R12S would probably be noticable when pushing on through twisty stuff. I'd say this was the major advantage between the two bikes.

As an aside, does the R11S have properly adjustable clip-ons? One gripe I had with the R12S was that the bars went into slots built in to the headstock, so they didn't have any real adjustability. You might find that a comfort issue, depending on how you fit the bike.


(edit) Argh, Gromit has beaten me to it!!!

(Addition) I found the suspension to be set really soft as set-up by the dealer. Felt awful (for a sports bike). But the 'Ohlins' can be set-up to be pretty stiff and responsive, so don't let that put you off if you test ride a 'soft' setup bike.

Gromit wrote:Must admit the best looking 12S's I've seen were PB's and Matt's in Wales a couple of years ago - all they did was have the bike painted all black, including the frame tubes. Looked fabulous...and not even the tiniest bit of rim-tape in sight.

Got some pics of them on the pooter at home, will dig them out.

Was it this one? For sale at Premier some months ago. "R12S" registration.

Gromit wrote: Steve - I was lucky enough to have a full afternoon's ride on an R1200S (it was PB's actually) all around the Yorks Dales o na Trixter weekend when I had my '04 BCR. Admittedly my BCR wasn't wearing fancy 'spenders or owt but it was Lennie'd/SJ'd and Laser'd.

Getting back on the 1100 it felt like riding a truck......

That's how I felt - after an afternoon's test ride on a 1200s. I found the 1200 to be more stable and confidence-inspring on bends and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I thought someone had stuffed carrots up the exhaust of my 1100 when I took it out afterwards

The seemingly-high prices of the S/H R1200s is maintained I think by the low numbers for sale and the even lower number of people - "desperate" to sell.

As Boxerscott highlighted - they are in RC8 territory....... pricewise

Al

exoticices wrote:

Gromit wrote:Must admit the best looking 12S's I've seen were PB's and Matt's in Wales a couple of years ago - all they did was have the bike painted all black, including the frame tubes. Looked fabulous...and not even the tiniest bit of rim-tape in sight.

Got some pics of them on the pooter at home, will dig them out.

Was it this one? For sale at Premier some months ago. "R12S" registration.

That could be the one - PB would be able to confirm. Personally I just love that look, gives a bike a bit of menace and is very anti-bling (which is good in my own book).

Blackal wrote:
The seemingly-high prices of the S/H R1200s is maintained I think by the low numbers for sale and the even lower number of people - "desperate" to sell.

As Boxerscott highlighted - they are in RC8 territory....... pricewise

Al

Moot points Al.

The 12 is a bike which a lot of people out in the big bad world of motorcycledom clearly didn't 'get'. Most of us in Boxerland did of course because we know what a great roadbike the 1100 was. The 12 was a very well-sorted evolution of it, lack of luggage/pillion provision notwithstanding.

Saying that, sales of the 11S only really started to climb once the Boxercup races took hold. Before that, the 11 whilst not a lame duck, certainly wasn't racing out of the dealers' front doors.

Steve, I understand your dilemma - I absolutely love the look of the 1200s - but I also love my BCR - in an ideal world I would have both in my garage (and then some more). I've often wondered if I should sell my 1100 to buy a 12. Motorrad Central had a yellow ex demo in a few years back when they weren't selling and it was really cheap - wished I'd bought it then

For about a year I did have both a standard R1100S and an R1200S (with sports pack) in my garage. While the R11S had its charms, there was no doubt which one got the most road time. The R12S isn't just more stable in the twisties and faster, it's more comfortable for me as well. In fact, after a while I found the knee angle in particular on the R11S so uncomfortable that I naturally reached for the R12S every time.

Unfortunately, the R12S isn't getting as much use now as I would like and Die Frau is putting pressure on me to sell.