Don't make em like they used too

[fontana]

Is that true do you think, or rose tinted specs ?
I ask because I had this very conversation with someone at work today over cars.
He reckoned modern cars are poorly and cheaply made.
"Not built to last" is what he said.
Hang on a minute.
I remember a time when if you had a car more than 10 years old and 100,000 miles, it was about ready for the scrap heap.
These days, you can find old cars of that age and mileage still going very strong, and without the rot that used to plague so many cars in the 70's and 80's.
So no, I don't accept that they were better then.
Today cars generally last a lot longer than they used too, thanks to vast improvements in materials, engine technology and corrosion prevention methods.
But what about bikes ?
I'm not so sure they've moved along at the same pace as cars.
In terms of performance yes, but build quality ?
What do you think.

[Grip Fast]

I agree with you regarding cars. But I also think (know) bikes are far better built than they used to be.

I came back to biking 20 years ago and haven't experienced a single breakdown while out on any of them (oh dear, have I really said that out loud). My Aprilia and R12S was and is over 10 years old, and I'd happily set of on a thousand mile tour. Back in the day, I was always having to replace worn out bits and battling rust on bikes that were around 5 to 7 years old. Sometimes pushing them home.

[fontana]

I came back to biking 20 years ago.

I had more reliability problems with bikes when I was young, but that was largely because all I could afford was neglected old shi**ers

[Grip Fast]

I came back to biking 20 years ago.

I had more reliability problems with bikes when I was young, but that was largely because all I could afford was neglected old shi**ers

Well yes, that's true

[big rob]

Is that true do you think, or rose tinted specs ?
I ask because I had this very conversation with someone at work today over cars.
He reckoned modern cars are poorly and cheaply made.
"Not built to last" is what he said.
Hang on a minute.
I remember a time when if you had a car more than 10 years old and 100,000 miles, it was about ready for the scrap heap.
These days, you can find old cars of that age and mileage still going very strong, and without the rot that used to plague so many cars in the 70's and 80's.
So no, I don't accept that they were better then.
Today cars generally last a lot longer than they used too, thanks to vast improvements in materials, engine technology and corrosion prevention methods.
But what about bikes ?
I'm not so sure they've moved along at the same pace as cars.
In terms of performance yes, but build quality ?
What do you think.

I think our 2 1997 Saab 9000's were 'built to last' and our BMW R1100S'sssss were as good as it got from BMW. Yeah, modern machinery has some very clever technology but in my opinion build quality is generally pretty poor. Things are designed to fail as the manufacturers wouldn't sell new stuff if older stuff lasted. There was a time when a mechanic could repair things but now a 'Technician' tells you its' fooked and you'll need to shell out £££'sss for the replacement part, sadly we live in a throw away society

[milleplod]

There's no real incentive for a manufacturer to make anything with a long....more than 3/4 years....service life. The market has changed. People tend to lease/PCP new vehicles now, so a manufacturer only has to commit to them for the length of the warranty....why would they engineer something to last, say, 100k+ miles when they can spend less on a 40k miles lifespan? Once out of warranty, and usually the dealer network, the owner pays the bills...and may have to spend the money with the manufacturer anyway. Its a win/win for manufacturers.

Pete

[Paul]

Another factor is the constant striving to remove weight and reduce the size/strength of components to achieve this. With better materials and computer models, newer bikes and cars seem much "flimsier" than the conservatively engineered models from "back in the day", but should still be strong enough for the task in hand.

[fontana]

Another part of the problem where bikes are concerned is the ridiculously low mileage riders do.
I believe that the average superbike covers about 3,000 miles a year, so in theory, a manufacturer only has a warranty commitment to a bike for 6,000 miles.

[slparry]

Another part of the problem where bikes are concerned is the ridiculously low mileage riders do.
I believe that the average superbike covers about 3,000 miles a year, so in theory, a manufacturer only has a warranty commitment to a bike for 6,000 miles.

Actually I think it's 2000 miles pa now, however BMW new bike warranty is there for unlimited mileage for two years, I believe in the USA it's 3 years but has a 60,000 mile limit (could be mistaken).

Being fair to BMW too they're far better than most other manufacturers for doing goodwill out of warranty work.

[JamesL]

Hi all, been away for a while so catching up.

For beemers I think the high point was with the R100 monoshocks which combined simplicity, tech and effectiveness before the suits got hold of the whole thing. My R100RS easily holds its own in any real world biking situation; sure it's not fast off the blocks but still faster than most cars, the brakes are pants but effective if applied with commitment, the suitcases carry the world, and even with panniers it will filter as well as the nips. And it's a joy to ride.

That said, the 1150GS refuses to be disliked. I've just completed Road Trip North to Gairloch via the Peaks, N Yorks Moors and a variety of gated tracks full of sheep, and I literally loaded it up and went. OK, I checked tyres and oil but that was about it. And having spent a week in 3rd gear or thereabouts I came back in a oner - 550 miles in 10.5 hours with no worries at all. It has similar mileage to the 100 but tbh is noticeably tattier and the paint is really suffering in places.

For me simple is best and despite huge advances in handling etc, for normal real world riding '90s technology has the best balance of performance, simplicity and durability...

[dave the german]

Another part of the problem where bikes are concerned is the ridiculously low mileage riders do.
I believe that the average superbike covers about 3,000 miles a year, so in theory, a manufacturer only has a warranty commitment to a bike for 6,000 miles.

My GS has just turned 2 years old and I've been offered an extended warranty on it. Only stipulation was that it was under 80 000 miles when I took it out so BMW must have some faith in them. Why only 2 year warranty though? My Nissan gets 3